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51
⚠⚠ / Carnivore Questions (only)
« Last post by Dale Eastman on July 02, 2024, 06:06:59 AM »
Some Carnivore Questions to think about.

When was agriculture invented?

How long have humans been on earth?

What did humans eat before agriculture was invented?

What fueled the brain before agriculture?
52
⚠⚠ / Carnivore Questions
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 23, 2024, 09:46:34 AM »
Some questions to think about.

When was agriculture invented?
Agriculture likely began during the Neolithic Era before roughly 9000 BCE when polished stone tools were developed and the last ice age ended.
The first agriculture appears to have developed at the closing of the last Pleistocene glacial period, or Ice Age (about 11,700 years ago).
Since its first tentative steps during the Neolithic era, agriculture has been a major driving force behind human culture for about 10,000 years.
How long have humans been on earth?
But fragments of 300,000-year-old skulls, jaws, teeth and other fossils found at Jebel Irhoud, a rich site also home to advanced stone tools, are the oldest Homo sapiens remains yet found.
Homo sapiens, who are the modern form of humans evolved 300,000 years ago from Homo erectus. Human civilizations started forming around 6,000 years ago.
What did humans eat before agriculture was invented?
By about two and a half million years ago, early humans started to occasionally eat meat. By about 2 million years ago, this happened more regularly. By probably about a million and a half years ago, humans started to get the better parts of animals. They shifted from just scavenging the leftovers to maybe getting earlier access to carcasses.
A Stone Age diet “is the one and only diet that ideally fits our genetic makeup,” writes Loren Cordain, an evolutionary nutritionist at Colorado State University [...] After studying the diets of living hunter-gatherers and concluding that 73 percent of these societies derived more than half their calories from meat, Cordain came up with his own Paleo prescription: Eat plenty of lean meat and fish but not dairy products, beans, or cereal grains
What fueled the brain before agriculture?
The growth of the human brain is evolutionarily outstanding, because the brain is a costly organ. The Homo sapiens brain uses 20% of the body's oxygen at rest despite making up only 2% of the body's weight.
53
Canned Text Topics / Dot.Gov Reified
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 22, 2024, 08:29:25 AM »
Referring to "government" as a single entity is an error of reification .
𝕎𝕚𝕜𝕚𝕡𝕖𝕕𝕚𝕒 𝕨𝕣𝕠𝕥𝕖:
𝑅𝑒𝒾𝒻𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 (𝒶𝓁𝓈𝑜 𝓀𝓃𝑜𝓌𝓃 𝒶𝓈 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝒸𝓇𝑒𝓉𝒾𝓈𝓂, 𝒽𝓎𝓅𝑜𝓈𝓉𝒶𝓉𝒾𝓏𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃, 𝑜𝓇 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒻𝒶𝓁𝓁𝒶𝒸𝓎 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓅𝓁𝒶𝒸𝑒𝒹 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝒸𝓇𝑒𝓉𝑒𝓃𝑒𝓈𝓈) 𝒾𝓈 𝒶 𝒻𝒶𝓁𝓁𝒶𝒸𝓎 𝑜𝒻 𝒶𝓂𝒷𝒾𝑔𝓊𝒾𝓉𝓎, 𝓌𝒽𝑒𝓃 𝒶𝓃 𝒶𝒷𝓈𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒸𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 (𝒶𝒷𝓈𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒸𝓉 𝒷𝑒𝓁𝒾𝑒𝒻 𝑜𝓇 𝒽𝓎𝓅𝑜𝓉𝒽𝑒𝓉𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝓈𝓉𝓇𝓊𝒸𝓉) 𝒾𝓈 𝓉𝓇𝑒𝒶𝓉𝑒𝒹 𝒶𝓈 𝒾𝒻 𝒾𝓉 𝓌𝑒𝓇𝑒 𝒶 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝒸𝓇𝑒𝓉𝑒 𝓇𝑒𝒶𝓁 𝑒𝓋𝑒𝓃𝓉 𝑜𝓇 𝓅𝒽𝓎𝓈𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁 𝑒𝓃𝓉𝒾𝓉𝓎. 𝐼𝓃 𝑜𝓉𝒽𝑒𝓇 𝓌𝑜𝓇𝒹𝓈, 𝒾𝓉 𝒾𝓈 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑒𝓇𝓇𝑜𝓇 𝑜𝒻 𝓉𝓇𝑒𝒶𝓉𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓈𝑜𝓂𝑒𝓉𝒽𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓉𝒽𝒶𝓉 𝒾𝓈 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝒸𝓇𝑒𝓉𝑒, 𝓈𝓊𝒸𝒽 𝒶𝓈 𝒶𝓃 𝒾𝒹𝑒𝒶, 𝒶𝓈 𝒶 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝒸𝓇𝑒𝓉𝑒 𝓉𝒽𝒾𝓃𝑔. 𝒜 𝒸𝑜𝓂𝓂𝑜𝓃 𝒸𝒶𝓈𝑒 𝑜𝒻 𝓇𝑒𝒾𝒻𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒾𝓈 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒸𝑜𝓃𝒻𝓊𝓈𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝑜𝒻 𝒶 𝓂𝑜𝒹𝑒𝓁 𝓌𝒾𝓉𝒽 𝓇𝑒𝒶𝓁𝒾𝓉𝓎: "𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓂𝒶𝓅 𝒾𝓈 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝑒𝓇𝓇𝒾𝓉𝑜𝓇𝓎".
𝑅𝑒𝒾𝒻𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒾𝓈 𝓅𝒶𝓇𝓉 𝑜𝒻 𝓃𝑜𝓇𝓂𝒶𝓁 𝓊𝓈𝒶𝑔𝑒 𝑜𝒻 𝓃𝒶𝓉𝓊𝓇𝒶𝓁 𝓁𝒶𝓃𝑔𝓊𝒶𝑔𝑒 (𝒿𝓊𝓈𝓉 𝓁𝒾𝓀𝑒 𝓂𝑒𝓉𝑜𝓃𝓎𝓂𝓎 𝒻𝑜𝓇 𝒾𝓃𝓈𝓉𝒶𝓃𝒸𝑒), 𝒶𝓈 𝓌𝑒𝓁𝓁 𝒶𝓈 𝑜𝒻 𝓁𝒾𝓉𝑒𝓇𝒶𝓉𝓊𝓇𝑒, 𝓌𝒽𝑒𝓇𝑒 𝒶 𝓇𝑒𝒾𝒻𝒾𝑒𝒹 𝒶𝒷𝓈𝓉𝓇𝒶𝒸𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒾𝓈 𝒾𝓃𝓉𝑒𝓃𝒹𝑒𝒹 𝒶𝓈 𝒶 𝒻𝒾𝑔𝓊𝓇𝑒 𝑜𝒻 𝓈𝓅𝑒𝑒𝒸𝒽, 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝒶𝒸𝓉𝓊𝒶𝓁𝓁𝓎 𝓊𝓃𝒹𝑒𝓇𝓈𝓉𝑜𝑜𝒹 𝒶𝓈 𝓈𝓊𝒸𝒽. 𝐵𝓊𝓉 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓊𝓈𝑒 𝑜𝒻 𝓇𝑒𝒾𝒻𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒾𝓃 𝓁𝑜𝑔𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁 𝓇𝑒𝒶𝓈𝑜𝓃𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝑜𝓇 𝓇𝒽𝑒𝓉𝑜𝓇𝒾𝒸 𝒾𝓈 𝓂𝒾𝓈𝓁𝑒𝒶𝒹𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝓊𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁𝓁𝓎 𝓇𝑒𝑔𝒶𝓇𝒹𝑒𝒹 𝒶𝓈 𝒶 𝒻𝒶𝓁𝓁𝒶𝒸𝓎.
What Government Is
Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are all imaginary entities.
These imaginary entities need a non-imaginary human to act for these imaginary entities: to leave children's presents under the tree; to hide the eggs; to take the teeth and leave the money.
Government is also an imaginary entity. Just like the previously listed imaginary entities, it has no will to act, nor hands to do the action.
Government never started a war, fought a war, nor taxed anybody. Government never kicked anybody out of their homes to take their homes for back taxes.
Humans did.
Government is imaginary and doesn't exist. Humans acting as if they are government do exist. To help you remember this, just replace the word government with Santa Claus whenever you see it.
What Government Does
Well... I can't write about what government does can I... Because government doesn't do anything.
What I can write about is what humans do while pretending to be government. Following my own advice at the end of the prior section: What I can write about is what humans do while pretending to be (Santa).
Humans do vile acts but the imaginary entity called (Santa) gets the blame.
What humans pretending to be (Santa) do... is lie about (Santa).
The first lie can be found in the Declaration of Independence, the first organic document of the United States. The lie, specifically and to wit, is:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, [...]
Clearly, this document states that the purpose of (Santa) is to secure rights. Any (Santa) that abstains from protecting these rights is a (Santa) that is ignoring its raison d'être. Or, in more precise words, the humans acting as and for (Santa) are ignoring the reason their (Santa) jobs exist in the first place.
You get the idea. The entities of Government, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, or Santa, are all just reified concepts.
When I write "government" I mean a reified mental concept; an imaginary entity; a legal fiction; a nonhuman person. Because such a legal fiction needs humans to act for it, the legal fiction itself can not be culpable for initiatory and offensive harm and aggression against humans. Only humans acting in the name of the legal fiction can cause harm to other humans. Only humans actually causing the harm with their actions are culpable for the harms scapegoated onto the legal fiction. The only difference between government and Santa Clause is somebody eventually told you the truth about Santa. I intend to tell you the truth about government. I am no more anti-government than government is anti-human.
The most poisonous critters on this planet are not anti-human. If you don't disturb them, they'll leave you alone. Prior to eight years of age, I got "educated" by a bumblebee. Without human language, that bee told me, "Fuck around and find out." No stinger. It bit me. Its way to slapping some sense into me.
On the other hand, government, or more specifically its actors, will go out of their way to harm humans who have not harmed anybody. If you like government, you like its actors going out of their way to harm humans who have not harmed anybody. If you advocate for government, you are advocating for harming innocent humans. There is no other way to view this.
Government actors, just like my seven year old self, need to find out there will be Natural Law repercussions from harming or attempting to harm other humans.
54
Canned Text Topics / Building inspector
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 20, 2024, 10:28:55 AM »
1. Are you doing the functions of a government action?

2. Does this mean you are acting as government?

3. Do these actions include telling people what they can or can not do?

4. Is telling people what the can and can not do, governing or ruling them?

5. If they refuse to do what you say, will other government actors punish those refusing?

6. Where do you imagine your alleged right to govern or rule came from?

7. Did the American Declaration of Independence claim government's right to rule came from the consent of the people, Using these specific words: "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

8. Can you produce my notarized certificate wherein I consented to be governed?
55
Discussions; Public Archive / SM
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 18, 2024, 07:01:55 AM »
Quote from: 17 July @ 10:38, OCR original post meme
Truth: Restaurants are informing us that servers no longer get to "cash-out " their credit card tips at the end of shift. The restaurant owner/ manager tallies the credit receipts & the tips get taxed & applied to the servers' payroll check every week/ 2 weeks. A lot of restaurants have already gone this direction. So with that being said, TIP YOUR SERVER IN CASH $ if you can . With so many people paying by credit card many servers are going home empty-handed at the end of their shift . 'Just something to think about entering this holiday season
Quote from: 17 July @ 10:42
Just in case you want to look it up.
Olk v. United States, 536 F2d 876 (1975):
"Tips are gifts and therefore are not taxable."
Quote from: 17 July @ 11:48
This is a suit to obtain a refund of federal income taxes. The issue is whether monies, called "tokes" in the relevant trade, received by the taxpayer, a craps dealer employed by Las Vegas casinos, constitute taxable income or gifts within the meaning of section 102(a), INT. REV. CODE of 1954. The taxpayer insists "tokes" are non-taxable gifts. If he is right, he is entitled to the refund for which this suit was brought. The trial court in a trial without a jury held that "tokes" were gifts. The Government appealed and we reverse and hold that "tokes" are taxable income.
https://www.anylaw.com/.../06-01-1976/dojYP2YBTlTomsSBoRJB

Try actually reading the case.

The[n] go find out what a "taxpayer" is.
Quote from: 17 July @ 12:04
Dale Eastman A taxpayer is a 14th Amendment citizen.
according to 26 CFR § 1.1-1(c)
If you are not also "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" then you cannot be a taxpayer.
Note to self:26 CFR § 1.1-1(c)
Quote from: 17 July @ 12:39
You don't know what you don't know.
Answer these questions.
https://synapticsparks.info/tax/OpenQuestionnaire.html
Quote from: 17 July @ 17:19
Dale Eastman I quote the 14th Amendment and cite a tax regulation that uses the exact same language. Then you tell me I'm ignorant.
I'm familiar with tax arguments. I have not filed a tax return in 24 years.
What part makes me ignorant?
Quote from: 17 July @ 18:58
WRONG!
26 U.S. Code § 7701 - Definitions
(a) When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof—
(14) Taxpayer
The term “taxpayer” means any person subject to any internal revenue tax.

The revenue laws are a code or system in regulation of tax assessment and collection. They relate to taxpayers and not to nontaxpayers. The latter are without their scope. No procedure is prescribed for nontaxpayers, and no attempt is made to annul any of their rights and remedies in due course of law. With them Congress does not assume to deal, and they are neither the subject nor object of revenue laws.
Long v. Rasmussen, 281 F. 236 (1922)

FN3.
The term "taxpayer" in this opinion is used in the strict or narrow sense contemplated by the Internal Revenue Code and means a person who pays, overpays, or is subject to pay his own personal income tax. (See Section 7701(a)(14) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954.) A "nontaxpayer" is a person who does not possess the foregoing requisites of a taxpayer.
Economy Plumbing and Heating Co. v. U.S.,
470 F. 2d 585 (1972)

History
Most of the significant history of the 14th Amendment appears in the text of Original Intent's citizenship treatise. However, one historical fact is not included because it was presumed during the construction of the treatise that every American knows that the 14th Amendment was created to nullify the holding of the United States Supreme Court in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 19 How. 404 (1856).

Oddly, while the nullification of the Dred Scott decision is universally acknowledged as the reason the 14th Amendment was thought necessary, some ill-informed and/or illogical expositors attempt to use the Dred case as their rationale to turn the true meaning of the Amendment on its head. Fortunately, the words of Chief Justice Taney (author of the Dred decision) are unmistakably clear.
http://originalintent.org/edu/14thamend.php
Quote from: 17 July @ 19:32
Dale Eastman So what?
Why do you assume that restaurant servers are taxpayers?
Quote from: 17 July @ 20:53
Why do you assume that restaurant servers are taxpayers?

I don't. The original post points out that the restaurant owners do.
Quote from: 18 July @ 05:51
What makes restaurant servers completely subject to federal jurisdiction of the 14th Amendment?

Most of the significant history of the 14th Amendment appears in the text of Original Intent's citizenship treatise. However, one historical fact is not included because it was presumed during the construction of the treatise that every American knows that the 14th Amendment was created to nullify the holding of the United States Supreme Court in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 19 How. 404 (1856).

Oddly, while the nullification of the Dred Scott decision is universally acknowledged as the reason the 14th Amendment was thought necessary, some ill-informed and/or illogical expositors attempt to use the Dred case as their rationale to turn the true meaning of the Amendment on its head. Fortunately, the words of Chief Justice Taney (author of the Dred decision) are unmistakably clear.

http://originalintent.org/edu/14thamend.php
56
My Commentary On The World / Wis. Stat. CH. 19.01  Oaths and bonds.
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 16, 2024, 08:54:50 AM »
Wis. Stat. CH. 19.01  Oaths and bonds.
(1)  Form of oath. Every official oath required by article IV, section 28, of the constitution or by any statute shall be in writing, subscribed and sworn to and except as provided otherwise by s. 757.02 and SCR 40.15, shall be in substantially the following form:
State of Wisconsin,
County of ....
I, the undersigned, who have been elected (or appointed) to the office of ...., but have not yet entered upon the duties thereof, swear (or affirm) that I will support the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of Wisconsin, and will faithfully discharge the duties of said office to the best of my ability. So help me God.
.... ....,
Subscribed and sworn to before me this .... day of ...., .... (year)

(4)(d) Official oaths and bonds of all elected or appointed county officers, other than those enumerated in par. (c), and of all officers whose compensation is paid out of the county treasury shall be filed in the office of the county clerk of any county in which the officer serves.

article IV, section 28, of the constitution
Oath of office. SECTION 28. Members of the legislature, and
all officers, executive and judicial, except such inferior officers
as may be by law exempted, shall before they enter upon the
duties of their respective offices, take and subscribe an oath or
affirmation to support the constitution of the United States and
the constitution of the state of Wisconsin, and faithfully to dis-
charge the duties of their respective offices to the best of their
ability.
57
Liberty / Notes from Proudhon's WHAT IS PROPERTY?
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 12, 2024, 07:34:10 AM »
https://dn790005.ca.archive.org/0/items/property-is-theft-a-pierre-joseph-proudhon-anthology/Property%20Is%20Theft%21_%20A%20Pierre-Joseph%20Proudh%20-%20Pierre-Joseph%20Proudhon.pdf

Quote from: PDF pg. 129
Liberty is inviolable. I can neither sell nor alienate my
liberty; every contract, every condition of a contract, which
has in view the alienation or suspension of liberty, is null:
the slave, when he plants his foot upon the soil of liberty, at
that moment becomes a free man. When society seizes a
malefactor and deprives him of his liberty, it is a case of
legitimate defence: whoever violates the social compact by
the commission of a crime declares himself a public enemy;
in attacking the liberty of others, he compels them to take
away his own. Liberty is the original condition of man; to
renounce liberty is to renounce the nature of man: after that,
how could we perform the acts of man?
Quote from: PDF pg. 130
And yet, in spite of
these wonderful prerogatives which savour of the eternal
and the infinite, they have never found the origin of
property; the doctors still disagree. On one point only are
they in harmony: namely, that the validity of the right of
property depends upon the authenticity of its origin. But this
harmony is their condemnation. Why have they
acknowledged the right before settling the question of
origin?
Quote from: PDF pg. 131
The right of
occupation, or of the
first occupant, is that
which results from the actual, physical, real possession of a
thing. I occupy a piece of land; the presumption is, that I am
the proprietor, until the contrary is proved. We know that
originally such a right cannot be legitimate unless it is
reciprocal; the jurists say as much.
Quote from: PDF pg. 131
That
which belongs to each is not that which each
may possess,
but that which each
has a right to possess. Now, what have
we a right to possess? That which is required for our labour
and consumption;
Quote from: PDF pg. 133
Edinburgh professor when he added:
“A right to life implies a right to the necessary means of
life; and that justice, which forbids the taking away the life
of an innocent man, forbids no less the taking from him the
necessary means of life. He has the same right to defend the
one as the other. To hinder another man’s innocent labour,
or to deprive him of the fruit of it, is an injustice of the same
kind, and has the same effect as to put him in fetters or in
prison, and is equally a just object of resentment.”
Quote from: PDF pg. 136
Man
needs to labour in order to live; consequently, he needs
tools to work with and materials to work upon. His need to
produce constitutes his right to produce. Now, this right is
guaranteed him by his fellows, with whom he makes an
agreement to that effect. One hundred thousand men settle
in a large country like France with no inhabitants: each man
has a right to 1/100,000 of the land. If the number of
possessors increases, each one’s portion diminishes in
consequence;
Quote from: pg. 137
Pothier seems to think that property, like royalty, exists by
divine right. He traces back its origin to God himself—
ab
Jove principium.
Quote
Men lived in a state of
communism; whether positive or negative it matters little.
Then there was no property, not even private possession.
The genesis and growth of possession gradually forcing
people to labour for their support, they agreed either
formally or tacitly,—it makes no difference which,—that the
worker should be sole proprietor of the fruit of his labour;
that is, they simply declared the fact that thereafter none
could live without working. It necessarily followed that, to
obtain equality of products, there must be equality of
labour; and that, to obtain equality of labour, there must be
equality of facilities for labour. Whoever without labour got
possession, by force or by strategy, of another’s means of
subsistence, destroyed equality, and placed himself above
or outside of the law. Whoever monopolised the means of
production on the ground of greater industry, also destroyed
equality. Equality being then the expression of right,
whoever violated it was
unjust.
58
Discussions; Public Archive / Re: SB
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 11, 2024, 09:59:09 AM »
Quote
Dale Eastman fine, but a nice abbreviation is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!
Quote
Thank you for the link. What is there, written by Proudhon, I've just read from the first chapter of his book. (https://dn790005.ca.archive.org/.../Property%20Is%20Theft...)
59
Memes / Voting Retard like to argue
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 11, 2024, 09:07:15 AM »
Voting Retard that believes voting for the lessor of two evils isn't voting for evil.
Votards like to argue over which evil pile of shit they want acting as their tyrannical ruler.
60
Discussions; Public Archive / SB
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 10, 2024, 08:39:09 AM »
Quote from: the OP meme
Thomas Sowell @ThomasSowell
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.
Quote from: June 9 @ 10:24
To feel entitled to not pay back into the very system that enables your wealth is like feeling entitled by the freedom they risk everything for to disrespect the military that defends your way of life. This is supposed to be a self-sustaining 'system' that lifts all boats, not a ponzi scheme.
Quote from: June 9 @ 11:11
Obviously your suggestion would generate less waste. But it could also generate horrific byproducts that the waste-savings would by no means make up for.

I said it *could* generate horrific byproducts, I didn't say it would. But it's easy to imagine the problems.

That said, here's my problem with dug-in political factions: each position that is not motivated purely by greed is a theory of what could make things better for everyone, not a method guaranteed to be better for everyone.

Nobody can know what will certainly work. We found out that communism falls short of what its idealists aspired to because of elements in human nature that were not factored into the method.

Any theory of organization is subject to unforeseeables and thus non-easily reversible tragedies of the commons.

Thus, the only reasonable discussions of these matters are philosophical, i.e., where we discuss them as though we don't have a dog in the race (even though we may and inevitably do).

But this 'certainty' that one's favorite alternative system will be better than a current system known to have flaws is, out the gate, the presentation of theory as *fact*, so naturally becomes easily suspect as motivated by greed rather than ideals.

When speculating on the potential of an idealized ideological maneuver, it is unbecoming of the philosophical method to sound-off as a zealot rather than an inquiring skeptic, for literally *none* of us are clairvoyant, and thus can 'know' what would be most fair and bring the most happiness for sure.

Certainly complex topics reduced to memes is the least philosophocal way to approach ideological ideas.
Quote from: June 9 @ 19:16
Quote from: June 9 @ 21:30
Dale Eastman answer: mutual protection from tragedies of the commons where each person acting in their own otherwise reasonable self-interest will degrade an aspect of the commons for everyone unless obligated to conform to regulations.
Quote from: June 10 @ 09:37
How is that service to be paid for?
Quote from: June 10 @ 09:59
Dale Eastman it *is* paid for by taxation as far as I know. How it *should* be paid for may be debated. What do you think?
Quote from: June 10 @ 11:42
What do you think?

I think you and I have a collision of ideology(ies).

How does calling it "taxation make it not theft? I am assuming that I correctly determined your implied understanding that taxation is theft. Else why would you question how it should be paid for with other methods? Please correct me if I am wrong.

How it *should* be paid for may be debated.

Yes, please. Let us discuss this issue of how protecting the commons should be protected and paid for.
(I appreciate that you are aware of the Tragedy of the Commons.)

I am also aware that any sidewalk or road in any village, town, city, megalopolis, or state are the commons. I think the traits, properties, attributes, characteristics & elements of all these different commons will need examination.

This segues to Where did those calling themselves the state get a Right-to-Rule and a Right-to-Initiate violence?

What if nobody wants this "service"?
Quote from: June 10 @ 12:37
Dale Eastman you wrote: //How does calling it "taxation make it not theft? I am assuming that I correctly determined your implied understanding that taxation is theft. Else why would you question how it should be paid for with other methods? Please correct me if I am wrong.//

I'm not sure we have a conflict, but words might be getting in the way. I did not say it should or shouldn't be paid with other methods besides taxation, I only said that's how it is paid currently, and I also said that how it should be paid could be debated.

I agree with Proudhon that property is theft. But, given we permit property, then we are thus ensconced within a kleptocracy and our discussion proceeds under the paradigm of what 'should' happen within a kleptocracy. This is much more complicated that talking about what should happen in a truly free anarchic society.

If you are advocating for no property, then the pardigm shifts and we would agree that both taxation and property are theft. If you are advocating for property (which is theft from the commons) but not for taxes (which you regard as theft from its rightful earners), then you may be in a sorites purgatory contemplating the boundary between good theft and bad theft.
Quote from: June 10 @ 13:47
I have just downloaded his book of the same name.

Source: https://dn790005.ca.archive.org/0/items/property-is-theft-a-pierre-joseph-proudhon-anthology/Property%20Is%20Theft%21_%20A%20Pierre-Joseph%20Proudh%20-%20Pierre-Joseph%20Proudhon.pdf

1300 pages. I will get back to you once I understand Proudhon's definition of property. Using that to give me an idea as to what you might mean & intend by using the word property.

I'm also tagging my Georgia acquaintance in case he's interested in the convo.
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