Author Topic: EU  (Read 108 times)

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Online Dale Eastman

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EU
« on: September 07, 2020, 06:44:36 AM »
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The rule of law is the great statist lie

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The biggest lie about statism is the rule of law.
The entire point of statism is to prop some humans over other humans. Having a system where everyone is treated equally under the law under statism is literally impossible.
Statism/forced collectivism is the exact opposite of the rule of law. The best way to NOT have the rule of law is to have a state.

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Yeah....good luck with that. Maybe if human beings didn't act like a bunch of animals, we could have less laws.
You want to have less laws? Then maybe stupid people and those who can't act civilized would have to he incarcerated or killed. Harsh, but realistic.
Otherwise, we need laws.

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you fallaciously compare a lack of statism with a society with no social norms/rules. That’s a fatal mistake. Also, the politicians are those who should be incarcerated if anybody and you allow them to run your governments.

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So how many laws are needed to keep "stupid people" from acting "uncivilized?"
I don't think you've really thought this through.

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really? That's pretty interesting to say. Tell me something....how are the those blocks that the rioters taken over doing? Right now they pretty much have no laws going on. It looks like everything is going A-OK for those folks, right?
You know what? I don't like being overburdened by a bunch of rules and big government either, but it's pretty fucking clear that people can't seem to manage to act civilized without laws and government. If you want proof, all you have to do is read the recent news.

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The media/gov are pushing the word anarchist to mean terrorist and the public is buying into it.

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I don't know. You tell me. Thanks to these idiot rioters, we've been able to see what happens when people live lawlessly. They act like a bunch of shit-throwing monkeys.

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RED but that's not my point. Once again, how many laws are needed to keep "stupid people" from acting "uncivilized?" Surely no more than a dozen, right?
But the real point is that laws don't keep anyone from doing anything. Laws merely give "authority" to punish those who violate them.
If laws kept "stupid people" from acting "uncivilized," then surely, with the tens of thousands of laws already on the books, we'd be living in a paradise.

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RED reading your response to BLUE, it's even more clear that you haven't really thought this through. You're pointing at a situation lacking enforcement, and claiming it's really a lack of laws.

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PURPLE wrong. The OP says that laws are part of a statist system. I am saying that laws are needed because the human race, as a whole, are a bunch of stupid savages who can't emotionally get past high school no matter how "educated" they are.
Yeah, there are people that can go through life not being complete assholes and they can live and let live, but there are a ton more who can't for every one who can.
The OP is delusional if he or she thinks that laws can be done without.
If you don't believe me, then let's go back to basics. For example, do you think there should be no laws against pedophilia, rape, theft, arson, murder, etc?
Yeah, there is a lot wrong with the "justice" system and the laws aren't getting equally enforced. If anything, that should show how we as a species are fucked up enough to hold certain people higher than the rest of us. It's not the fault of laws.

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Still not getting it, RED. You're not even reading the original post correctly.

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RED looks to me like the rioters are just like you, supporters of government of their flavor. That’s not a free market like ancaps support whatsoever

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The reason we stay on our side of the road when we drive isn't because there is a line or a law, it's because it's mutually beneficial to all.
These types of rules don't need enforcement, for the most part everyone naturally agrees.

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PURPLE ok, then explain it if I'm not reading it "correctly". Give me YOUR version...

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BLUE WTF are you even talking about?? I'm talking about a society needing laws and you ASSume that my viewpoint matches the rioters?
You don't know me so I guess this is what happens when you ASSume.

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GREEN really? So there isn't ANY law on the books ANYWHERE about driving on a certain side of the road? Really? Have you ever taken a driver's test? Pretty sure the DOT covers laws about driving. And I'm also pretty sure that there is a law, that is enforced, about driving on the wrong side of the road and endangering people.
FFS...sucky troll sure do suck hard on this page.

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you both call for and are states in your own way... ancaps are all about rules with no rulers. You haven’t even done the slightest research on the topic.

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Good one..My point is that if you have to force people to obey then you probably have a very shitty system you're ramming down everyone's throat.
I see where you are coming from, I would ask that you see things outside of the context of people responding to a shitty system and assuming that that is exactly how they would behave in a better system.

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RED I didn't say you're misinterpreting it, I said you're reading it wrong. It doesn't say the words you're arguing against. Go back and reread it.

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Well, guys, this has been fun, but it's time to be done. I'm sorry, but your vision of how you want life to be....it's unrealistic. You all may want to purchase a chain of islands or something so that you don't fall under anyone's rules and borders. That's the only way it's going to happen and here is why:
1) Rich and powerful people want ALL the power and do anything to obtain it. They would not only laugh at your vision, but they would spend the money to crush it.
2) There are way too many people that look for a leader. In a leaderless society, people are still going to look for leaders especially when shit hits the fan. Even close military teams....guys who depend on each other for their survival...have a pack leader. It's nature. It's like that since the dawn of time. Good luck changing that.
3). There are people that can live just fine in coexistence with each other. There are also people who want to watch everything burn. The latter group will ruin things for the former. How would those people be dealt with? By laws? By executing them in the streets? Who would enforce judgement? Who would be in charge of doing that?
I'm sure we all could debate this topic for years and years. It seems to me, though, that if you really want to be a peaceful anarchist, you become a hermit, go off the grid and become totally self-sustainable, and interact with no one. People are the point of failure. Period.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 07:28:44 AM by Admin »
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Online Dale Eastman

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Re: EU
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2020, 09:10:10 AM »
A day late and a federal reserve note short, here regardless after reading the dialog.

Fair warning: I ask questions specific to finding what others think and believe. Especially because of what I have already discerned in reading this dialog.

A positive thing about you that I have discerned is that you operate not in the written equivalent the sound bite mentality. You write multiple paragraphs. As one who also does such, I can appreciate your effort and time.

➽ 1) Rich and powerful people want ALL the power and do anything to obtain it. They would not only laugh at your vision, but they would spend the money to crush it.

I will tentatively agree that there are those who want power at any cost to others.

I challenge your claim that the rich and powerful "would not only laugh at your vision". Have you personally witnessed any R&P person laugh at visions of liberty? Are you one of these R&P? Does this mean you have laughed at those visions. Even if not an R&P person, I can easily imagine you laughing at the entire discussion of law.

I do agree that those who want power "would spend the money to crush it." Lobbyists immediately come to mind.

➽ 2) There are way too many people that look for a leader.

I will admit to that. I have personally observed such action by others.

Even so, I am calling you on your conflation.
Rulers Rule, Leaders Lead. Rulers will have you caged or killed if you refuse to obey their edicts. Leaders will not.

I do agree with your claim: "It's nature. It's like that since the dawn of time." The problem, IMO, is the corruption of "state" a.k.a. "government".

To choose a leader, one simply starts following those they choose to follow. No voting required. The provable opinion that "V***" is a dirtier word than "F***" is a topic I've already written many words about.

➽ 3). [...] There are also people who want to watch everything burn. [...] How would those people be dealt with?

That is a question I have been wrestling with myself. There are many people with ideas on how to deal with just such "behavior" in addition to my own.

➽ People are the point of failure.

So we need people to dictate to other people how to live their lives?

Now going to your first comments...

Blah blah blah ➽ Otherwise, we need laws.

I specifically challenge your use of a euphemism. What you call "laws" I hesitantly call "politician's rules." Said "Politician's Rules" being demands and commands under threat of death. Comply or die.

But the reality is that "Politician's Rules" are MERELY "Politician's OPINIONS".

How do these opinions become rules, and by what authority? The how first:

An elected alleged Representative will write, dicker, and then vote with other alleged Representatives regarding a new law and if 51% of the alleged Representatives voting agree that thou shalt have no lilacs growing on your property, then that is the law and thou shalt have no lilacs growing on your property.

If you refuse to comply, goons with guns, called police, will come to fine you, cage you, or kill you. Over lilacs growing in your yard. They have already done this regarding certain other plants, like hemp. You do know that rope used to be made out of hemp; that rope used to be made out of marijuana?

By what authority? I'm setting that on the shelf for the moment.

➽ Tell me something....how are the those blocks that the rioters taken over doing? Right now they pretty much have no laws going on.

There have been laws against murder since time immemorial. There have been murders since time immemorial. Apparently murderers ignore the law. And obviously laws against murder don't matter to those who don't murder.

Now as to the rioters damaging property, why the fuck did "government" not protect those properties and enforce the law against the rioters?

That's because police have no duty to protect. That's a one sided essay because it is irrefutable legal precedent. But you are being extorted (called taxed) to pay for cops that have no duty to protect you.

➽ How would those people be dealt with? By laws?

Like the laws against destroying people's property NOT being enforced by the Kenosha cops?

➽ The OP says that laws are part of a statist system. I am saying that laws are needed because the human race, as a whole, are a bunch of stupid savages who can't emotionally get past high school no matter how "educated" they are.

I'll only poke you a tiny bit about your emotionalism as I perceive it in your comments.

Some of those same "savages" are also are members of the criminal syndicate called government. Perhaps that's why a man was shot 7 times in the back.

➽ The OP is delusional if he or she thinks that laws can be done without.

You mean "politician's opinions". Really, you do when I drill down to the reality of these opinion's called laws.

➽ laws about driving

As to "driving", ask a 6 year old to indicate by raising that hand, what side of the road mommy or daddy should drive on?  Cultural learning of convention.

And pulling the question back off the shelf:
Laws. By What Authority?
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