91
Discussions; Public Archive / Re: Capitalism BM
« Last post by Dale Eastman on June 18, 2023, 09:18:33 AM »Quote from: 17 June 20:41
Dale Eastman does capitalism in it's current manifestation have anything to do with free markets or property ownership?
Quote from: 17 June 20:42
Dale Eastman what I mean is it's authoritarian collectivism and not anything an anarchist wants anything to do with.
Quote from: 17 June 22:07
Dale Eastman every time I debate with a supporter of capitalism they never agree with any dictionary definition and are not familiar with the etymology of the word. What's there even to debate?
Quote from: 18 June 14:11
Gentlemen, thank you for engaging in a "discussion" of "capitalism". I like that you are both positing questions which is what one does to dig for knowledge and understanding.
Gents, your anti-capitalism biases are showing. Let me rephrase that claim, Gents, your anti-this specific ism biases are showing.
In other words, I am aware that you are both against a certain something-ism. I have no clue as to what, exactly, it is that you are both "against". You both fail to define what this, (my word) "Evil" is that you are against.
Serg, you claim:
➽ every time I debate with a supporter of capitalism they never agree with any dictionary definition and are not familiar with the etymology of the word.
I feel your frustration. <SNIP!> (I just cut myself off from a distracting tangential rant. We can examine that later if you have interest later.)
➽ they are not familiar with the etymology of the word.
Pretty sad that I find myself giving you kudos for knowing what etymology is.
➽ What's there even to debate?
I have seen more than my share of ahem... cough... ptooey... discussions between capitalists and anti-capitalists...
Both sides talk right past each other because of no agreement on what the term means.
I like that you are at least focused on finding a defined and defining starting point. Taking my guidance from your statement, I am going to start with some dictionary definitions.
𝕎𝕚𝕜𝕚𝕡𝕖𝕕𝕚𝕒
𝒞𝒶𝓅𝒾𝓉𝒶𝓁𝒾𝓈𝓂 𝒾𝓈 𝒶𝓃 𝑒𝒸𝑜𝓃𝑜𝓂𝒾𝒸 𝓈𝓎𝓈𝓉𝑒𝓂 𝒷𝒶𝓈𝑒𝒹 𝑜𝓃 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓅𝓇𝒾𝓋𝒶𝓉𝑒 𝑜𝓌𝓃𝑒𝓇𝓈𝒽𝒾𝓅 𝑜𝒻 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓂𝑒𝒶𝓃𝓈 𝑜𝒻 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝒹𝓊𝒸𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝒾𝓇 𝑜𝓅𝑒𝓇𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒻𝑜𝓇 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝒻𝒾𝓉. 𝒞𝑒𝓃𝓉𝓇𝒶𝓁 𝒸𝒽𝒶𝓇𝒶𝒸𝓉𝑒𝓇𝒾𝓈𝓉𝒾𝒸𝓈 𝑜𝒻 𝒸𝒶𝓅𝒾𝓉𝒶𝓁𝒾𝓈𝓂 𝒾𝓃𝒸𝓁𝓊𝒹𝑒 𝒸𝒶𝓅𝒾𝓉𝒶𝓁 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝓊𝓂𝓊𝓁𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃, 𝒸𝑜𝓂𝓅𝑒𝓉𝒾𝓉𝒾𝓋𝑒 𝓂𝒶𝓇𝓀𝑒𝓉𝓈, 𝓅𝓇𝒾𝒸𝑒 𝓈𝓎𝓈𝓉𝑒𝓂𝓈, 𝓅𝓇𝒾𝓋𝒶𝓉𝑒 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝓅𝑒𝓇𝓉𝓎, 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝓅𝑒𝓇𝓉𝓎 𝓇𝒾𝑔𝒽𝓉𝓈 𝓇𝑒𝒸𝑜𝑔𝓃𝒾𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃, 𝓋𝑜𝓁𝓊𝓃𝓉𝒶𝓇𝓎 𝑒𝓍𝒸𝒽𝒶𝓃𝑔𝑒, 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝓌𝒶𝑔𝑒 𝓁𝒶𝒷𝑜𝓇.
ℂ𝕒𝕡𝕚𝕥𝕒𝕝𝕚𝕤𝕞 𝔻𝕖𝕗𝕚𝕟𝕚𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟 & 𝕄𝕖𝕒𝕟𝕚𝕟𝕘 - 𝕄𝕖𝕣𝕣𝕚𝕒𝕞-𝕎𝕖𝕓𝕤𝕥𝕖𝕣
𝒞𝒶𝓅𝒾𝓉𝒶𝓁𝒾𝓈𝓂 𝓇𝑒𝒻𝑒𝓇𝓈 𝓉𝑜 𝒶𝓃 𝑒𝒸𝑜𝓃𝑜𝓂𝒾𝒸 𝓈𝓎𝓈𝓉𝑒𝓂 𝒾𝓃 𝓌𝒽𝒾𝒸𝒽 𝒶 𝓈𝑜𝒸𝒾𝑒𝓉𝓎'𝓈 𝓂𝑒𝒶𝓃𝓈 𝑜𝒻 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝒹𝓊𝒸𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒶𝓇𝑒 𝒽𝑒𝓁𝒹 𝒷𝓎 𝓅𝓇𝒾𝓋𝒶𝓉𝑒 𝒾𝓃𝒹𝒾𝓋𝒾𝒹𝓊𝒶𝓁𝓈 𝑜𝓇 𝑜𝓇𝑔𝒶𝓃𝒾𝓏𝒶𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃𝓈, 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑔𝑜𝓋𝑒𝓇𝓃𝓂𝑒𝓃𝓉, 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝓌𝒽𝑒𝓇𝑒 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝒹𝓊𝒸𝓉𝓈, 𝓅𝓇𝒾𝒸𝑒𝓈, 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝒹𝒾𝓈𝓉𝓇𝒾𝒷𝓊𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝑜𝒻 𝑔𝑜𝑜𝒹𝓈 𝒶𝓇𝑒 𝒹𝑒𝓉𝑒𝓇𝓂𝒾𝓃𝑒𝒹 𝓂𝒶𝒾𝓃𝓁𝓎 𝒷𝓎 𝒸𝑜𝓂𝓅𝑒𝓉𝒾𝓉𝒾𝑜𝓃 𝒾𝓃 𝒶 𝒻𝓇𝑒𝑒 𝓂𝒶𝓇𝓀𝑒𝓉.
I place this next definition mostly as a reminder to myself as a segue to some of the contentious points in regard to capitalism. I'm not ready for this tangential distraction at this time. When it is time, I will engage on the specific points.
ℂ𝕒𝕞𝕓𝕣𝕚𝕕𝕘𝕖 𝔻𝕚𝕔𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟𝕒𝕣𝕪
𝒶𝓃 𝑒𝒸𝑜𝓃𝑜𝓂𝒾𝒸 𝓈𝓎𝓈𝓉𝑒𝓂 𝒷𝒶𝓈𝑒𝒹 𝑜𝓃 𝓅𝓇𝒾𝓋𝒶𝓉𝑒 𝑜𝓌𝓃𝑒𝓇𝓈𝒽𝒾𝓅 𝑜𝒻 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝓅𝑒𝓇𝓉𝓎 𝒶𝓃𝒹 𝒷𝓊𝓈𝒾𝓃𝑒𝓈𝓈, 𝓌𝒾𝓉𝒽 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑔𝑜𝒶𝓁 𝑜𝒻 𝓂𝒶𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑔𝓇𝑒𝒶𝓉𝑒𝓈𝓉 𝓅𝑜𝓈𝓈𝒾𝒷𝓁𝑒 𝓅𝓇𝑜𝒻𝒾𝓉𝓈 𝒻𝑜𝓇 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝑜𝓌𝓃𝑒𝓇𝓈
❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀
Clearly, there is a connection between capitalism and profit. I have observed profit to be just as nebulously poorly defined as capitalism.
Discussion can not proceed absent agreement as to what, specifically, is meant by "profit". I deliberately fall silent on the different definitions I have seen bandied about...
Well... nearly silent. Anti-capitalists are anti-profit.
❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀ ❀
Brett, I do not understand what 𝓨𝓞𝓤 mean when 𝓨𝓞𝓤 use the word-term "𝕔𝕒𝕡𝕚𝕥𝕒𝕝𝕚𝕤𝕞". This severely limits communication and mutual understanding. I have stated this to you once already.
You ask:
➽ does capitalism in it's current manifestation have anything to do with free markets or property ownership?
You have failed to define for me exactly what 𝓨𝓞𝓤 mean when 𝓨𝓞𝓤 use the word-term "𝕔𝕒𝕡𝕚𝕥𝕒𝕝𝕚𝕤𝕞". Since I do not understand what you are asking me to compare, I simply can not give an answer.
You may as well ask me, Do mouse turds in it's current manifestation have anything to do with free markets or property ownership? This has the same logical connection as your question.
➽ what I mean is it's authoritarian collectivism and not anything an anarchist wants anything to do with.
Your imprecise use of words forces me to have to take your sentences apart word by word to attempt to understand the point or points you wish to present for myself and others to cogitate.
I am forced to assume that you intended to claim that capitalism is "authoritarian collectivism"...
Please define exactly what you mean by "authoritarian collectivism". Please be precise and articulate in doing so.
I am ignoring the red herring of the proper definition of anarchist.