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PS again.
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote from: 20:01 5JUNE2022 ---Liberty or Slavery
If you are an anti-gun coward...
Try to understand:
A human with a gun will not gently become a slave.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 14:15 6JUNE2022 ---Dale: nobody wants to make you a slave.
You have definitely earned your award: best dramatic actress.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 10:02 6JUNE2022 ---Before you and I can have a discussion, we need to come to an agreement as to what specific terms mean to each of us.
What are the specific traits, properties, attributes, & characteristics of "slave" as YOU use the word?
--- End quote ---
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote from: 1022 6JUNE2022 ---Dale, it doesn’t include “being required to pay taxes”.
It doesn’t mean “have to obey the law in a constitutional republic”.
It doesn’t mean “I didn’t sign the Constitution, so I do not consent.”
I’m not big on drama.
It means “ownership of another human being, including the rights to enjoy the fruit of their production, the right to alienate or dispose of them, and the right to mandate, unilaterally without their input or consent, the rules by which they must work and live, including the same rights to their offspring.”
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 1210 6JUNE2022 ---Thank you for actually attending to my question.
I'm setting your first three sentences as to what slave doesn't mean aside.
I'll decide later if I'm going to take umbrage at your implied claim of my posting "drama".
I find that your meaning of slave, and my meaning of slave do not differ enough to require discussion. You might not agree, so, for the record, here's how I define slave:
⚡A slave is a human whose owner's free will overrides the slave's free will. Pick cotton or get the whip.⚡
Excerpting from your definition of slave:
➽ the right to mandate, unilaterally without their input or consent, the rules by which they must work and live
How does the slave's owner come by "the right to mandate, unilaterally without their input or consent, the rules by which they must work and live"?
--- End quote ---
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote from: 1217 6JUNE2022 ---By force.
But that doesn’t mean force is always bad.
Eating fifty apples will make you sick.
That doesn’t mean apples are bad.
Hitting someone in the head with a hammer is bad.
That doesn’t mean hammers are bad.
I have no patience for the definition that “the state is a monopoly on the use of force”, or other such libertarian or ancap nonsense.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 1229 6JUNE2022 ---➽ By force.
Precisely. You and I agree on that point.
➽ But that doesn’t mean force is always bad.
I agree with that statement, just as written and quoted.
What are the specific traits, properties, attributes, characteristics and/or circumstances of YOUR decision regarding the good or bad use of force?
--- End quote ---
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote from: 1315 6JUN2022 ---Dale, I’m not interested in playing 20 questions.
You asked, I answered.
If you have an argument, just make it.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 1324 6JUN2022 ---➽ If you have an argument, just make it.
➽ Dale: nobody wants to make you a slave.
You are wrong.
➽ Dale, I’m not interested in playing 20 questions.
Well of course you're not interested in my questions. You know they will expose you.
Second inquiry: What are the specific traits, properties, attributes, characteristics and/or circumstances of YOUR decision regarding the good or bad use of force?
--- End quote ---
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote from: 1412 6JUN2022 ---Dale, that’s nonsense.
You’re asking questions because you don’t have an argument.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: 1419 6JUN2022 ---I have literally debated all my life.
I did it competitively all through high school and college. Won a lot of trophies and stuff.
And if you think badgering people is debate, you don’t understand debate.
Here’s the truth: it is a common practice for people who have flimsy, easily defeatable positions to engage in what they think is “Socratic” methodology, where they ask questions hoping to trap people into exposing that they haven’t really thought through an issue.
That’s why you see so many libertarians and ancaps who really know nothing about anything.
After a life of caring about nothing but weed, someone snatched their attention and “woke them up” by leading them down a trail of nonsense on issues they had never considered.
And never having thought about issues themselves, they naturally assume that everyone else is just as ignorant and slothful as they were.
They just have no clue that there are people who didn’t get their information by being led by someone who had a libertarian agenda, but actually STUDIED history, philosophy, and economics.
To them, that sort of study seems remote, like something only “super special people”, not something accessible to them.
So they allow themselves to be blinkered and led, and they are fooled by the clumsiest of logical fallacies.
And they think that doing the same to others will “wake them up”, too.
Of course, they tend not to be very good at it, so they never get past the “asking you 20 questions” stage of things, and like most projects in their smoke-filled lives, the projects of “waking people up” go pretty much unfinished.
It’s cute when they try this stuff, in the same way watching a toddler try to explain how a car works is cute, but it’s really not all that interesting to humor them.
--- End quote ---
Hidden reply not posted: https://www.synapticsparks.info/dialog/index.php?topic=1442.0
--- Quote from: 1607 6JUN2022 ---Simply stating your opinions does not make your opinions into facts. So I'm going to ignore your bloviating of your D⁶ opinions.
I'm going to drag the focus of this discussion back onto the topic of contention.
Your claim ➽ Dale: nobody wants to make you a slave.
You agreed the specific traits, properties, attributes, & characteristics of "slave": ➽ means “ownership of another human being, including the rights to enjoy the fruit of their production, the right to alienate or dispose of them, and the right to mandate, unilaterally without their input or consent, the rules by which they must work and live
I asked, How does the slave's owner come by "the right to mandate, unilaterally without their [the slave's] input or consent, the rules by which they [the slaves] must work and live"?
You stated: ➽ By force.
You also stated: ➽ But that doesn’t mean force is always bad.
Simple question: Is force bad when it is used to enslave people?
--- End quote ---
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