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Dale Eastman:
I have found you to have a great deal of mental acuity showing in your posts. In the following statement, not so much.
--- Quote ---Yes I would be willing to let soldiers commit murder to end the authority of government that I claim is valid since those with power have authority.
--- End quote ---
I said nothing about soldiers committing murder. I remind you again, I said, “There's just you, I, the clothes on our backs, and whatever is provided by nature on that island.”
I repeat, You stated that you are willing to commit murder to end authority that you claim is valid.
And I ask again, If this authority is valid, then why would you premeditate murder to end it?
And again, I must call you on your use of the euphemism of authority when you are actually referring to the extortion of “Do what you are told to do or you will be hurt.” With the ability to hurt being the power referred to.
You also wrote:
--- Quote ---You would have authority over me on that island whether I like it or not until I figure out how to take over.
--- End quote ---
So... You've just admitted that you're an immoral, power hungry, despot wannabe.
Remember, you're the one calling my threat, duress, and coercion “authority.”
Unlike you, I'm calling my action in the scenario precisely what it is: “EXTORTION”.
If alleged authority is bogus, then why call it authority? Especially since extortion is closer to and much more descriptive of the truth?
In the next post, you wrote:
--- Quote ---I don't like philosophy so I'm not reading that description.
--- End quote ---
Am I to assume you are referring to the Stanford page? If so, I have no problem with you not reading it. If you are referring to something else, I can't comment with my lack of understanding of to what you refer.
Also, philosophy has several different meanings, and again I have no knowledge of what you mean. So I'll just copy this one from Merriam-Webster:
--- Quote from: Merriam-Webster ---Philosophy; 4 a :the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group.
--- End quote ---
By that definition, You have a philosophy.
You also wrote:
--- Quote ---Extortion is authority, power is authority, might is authority, threat, duress coercion -- all authority -- bogus? of course but so what -- in the real world of might makes right this is immoral but yet valid.
--- End quote ---
So I repeat the questions I asked above:
If alleged authority is bogus, then why call it authority? Especially since extortion is closer to and much more descriptive of the truth?
--- Quote ---Authority does not have to be fair, just or moral to be valid. It just has to be able to coerce and force others.
--- End quote ---
Then it's not authority, it's extortion.
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Then call authority extortion if it makes you happy.
--- End quote ---
Thanks to our discussion I already do. You however, do not.
--- Quote ---Does not change that the powerful always win.
--- End quote ---
Why would you want to help the powerful win?
You are giving the powerful a free pass when you refer to their extortion as authority.
Innate to the concept of authority is the indoctrinated belief in a duty to obey.
Why would you want to present the extortion of the powerful as something people have a duty to obey?
-------------------------------
--- Quote ---Yes I would love power. Yes I enjoy controlling people.
--- End quote ---
That makes you no different than the powerful you rail against.
Am I correct in assuming, by your other posts, that you view the powerful as indifferent to the plight of the unexalted?
If that is correct, then I also assume you want to make things better. You can't, you won't. Give Larken Rose your attention for 14 minutes and he'll explain why.
https://youtu.be/z0HtWSlFCAQ
--- Quote ---No I would not kill people that is what the army is for -- so I don't have to get my hands dirty.
--- End quote ---
You are so right, Ms. Hitler. You have an army so you don't have to get your hands dirty implementing the Final Solution at Auschwitz and ten other locations.
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Yes I view the powerful as indifferent to the plight of the unexalted, the plight of the disabled and elderly. I could make it better because I am kinder than most people.
--- End quote ---
Thank you for confirming my assumptions.
As I pointed out, You can't make things better, you won't make things better.
With the miracle of copy-n-paste I can prove my statement using your own words...
“I could make it better because I am kinder than most people” “of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way”
By your own words you admit to premeditating the murder of people you don't even know.
Would a kind person premeditate the murder of unknown others?
By your own words you contradict yourself.
As Shakespeare would say, Ye be hoist by ye own petard.
...................................
--- Quote from: My debating partner who screamed ---AYNCRAP BS LARKEN ROSE IS AN IDIOT
--- End quote ---
Your emotional prejudice is showing.
It doesn't matter that you didn't view Larken's video explaining why you can't make things better. The video link is (t)here for the curious.
https://youtu.be/z0HtWSlFCAQ
When the Catlick Church refused to look in Galileo's telescope, they did NOT refute what was presented. Likewise, your refusal to spend 14 minutes watching the video does NOT refute the points contained within. Just observin'
...................................
--- Quote ---of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way -- it is about CONTROL
--- End quote ---
That's exactly how these people thought:
Adolf Hitler
Joseph Stalin
Benito Mussolini
Mao Zedong
Fidel Castro
Marshall Joseph Tito
General Augusto Pinochet
Idi Amin
Ho Chi Minh
Saddam Hussein
Ayatollah Khomeini
Pol Pot
So it appears that great minds do think alike.
/Snarcasm
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---I watched the video. I think it is nonsense.
--- End quote ---
There's that blanket dismissal that I wrote of in an earlier post. The blanket dismissal that ignores the points.
The points:
1. You want to make things better by giving stuff to the needy and poor. You won't be creating the things you'll be giving to the needy and poor. Before you can give stuff to the needy and poor, you will have to extort that stuff from others. And if those others don't want to give you their stuff? What would you do about their refusal? Silly question... Asked and answered: “of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way” Killing people that don't want you robbing them makes things better?
2. You want to make things better by building things that benefit the people in general like public schools, libraries, public parks, museums, zoos, roads, and hospitals. How do you pay for it? Again, first you have to extort money from others. You are not giving them anything. You are spending their money for them. And if those others don't want to give you their money? What would you do about their refusal? Silly question... Asked and answered: “of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way” Killing people that don't want you robbing them makes things better?
3. You want to make things better by making others to live healthier lives by exercising, eating a well balanced diet, not smoking, not drinking alcohol, not using drugs, not eating too much candy. What would you do about their refusal to obey? Silly question... Asked and answered: “of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way” Killing people makes their lives healthier?
4. You want to make things better by protecting the innocent and protecting the good from the wicked. How do you pay for it? Again, first you have to extort money from others. And if those others don't want to give you their money? What would you do about their refusal? Silly question... Asked and answered: “of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way” Killing people that don't want you robbing them protects the innocent?
5. Power via brute force can not fix the world. All such power by its very nature is nothing more than the ability to threaten people and hurt people.
You claimed, “I could make it better because I am kinder than most people” “of course I will kill those who don't want to do things my way”
Threatening, hurting, and killing people makes the world better?
Excusez mon français, BULLSHIT!
--- Quote ---Yes I want to be the dictator of the entire world.
--- End quote ---
Wish in one hand, shit in the other. See which one gets filled first.
--- Quote ---No I don't want voluntarism and free-dumb.
--- End quote ---
By that statement I will assume nobody in your family tree had numbered tattoos.
--- Quote ---Glad you understand.
--- End quote ---
That you are premeditating the committing of murder. Yep. I do.
--- Quote ---Kind people do commit murder -- ever heard of euthanasia?
--- End quote ---
You were not writing about euthanasia. Nice try with the red herring.
--- Quote ---I watched the video.
--- End quote ---
According to FB:
My post with the link to Larken's video went up at 8:05.
Your first reply went up at 8:14.
Your second reply where you dissed Larken went up at 8:17, a difference of 12 minutes.
If the clock ticked over just before the 8:05 post and ticked over just after the 8:17 post, then you would have had 13m58s to write and post two posts plus watch a 13m55s video.
I don't know when you edited the typo on the Rose dissing post, so I discard that action as being in that 13:58 time span.
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---no more Larken Rose, Mark Passio, or Jordan Peterson videos -- I would rather read sources than listen to them.
--- End quote ---
Oops. We agree on something. I would rather read as well.
I hit the main points of Larken's 14 minute video with 377 words. Of course it took more than 14 minutes to paraphrase and type those 377 words.
--- Quote ---I was replying while I was listening to it.
--- End quote ---
I did consider that possibility. The timeline presented does suggest that typing while listening was the only way you could have contemplated the points in the video in the time shown.
--- Quote ---You can't make the world better for those you eliminate, only for those who remain.
--- End quote ---
The world becomes better for those who remain only if those eliminated are thieves, murderers, extortionists, criminals, despots and tyrants. But that's not who you are intent on eliminating.
--- Quote ---I want to control you.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Frederick Douglass ---Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both.
--- End quote ---
I refuse to submit to you imposing injustice and wrongs upon me.
--- Quote ---You want freedom and I want to control you. I think that puts an end to this debate.
--- End quote ---
Debate?
Quick recap:
I presented a definition of authority as a presumed higher claim over an individual and their property than that individual's own claim over themselves and their property. You agreed.
I presented authority in the absence of consent as extortion. You agreed.
You have presented that you want to {kill those who don't want to do things} your {way}.
You have presented that you to intend to impose injustices and wrongs on those who don't want to do things your way.
--- Quote ---We both know exactly where we stand.
--- End quote ---
Yes, we do.
You are willing to initiate aggression and violence and ignore the immorality of such action.
I am pointing this out to you.
--- Quote ---Voluntary charity will never meet the needs of those who cannot produce due to illness or age. Force is required to extort people or there will always be a precariat class and an oligarchy, which is what all ANCAPs want.
--- End quote ---
I decline to follow the trail of your red herring. Doubly so since you are trying to pigeon hole me with a label again.
Just as I declined to follow this red herring:
--- Quote ---You really should han[g] out in A Pluralist Accord of Differences United by Universal Love and Struggle for a few days so you understand what REAL anarchists want, not AYNcaps.
--- End quote ---
And though this diversion was tempting, I decided to not follow it at this time as well.
--- Quote ---The government has the legal ability to create money without interest or debt. It gave up that ability in 1913 and that was a big mistake.
--- End quote ---
In another thread you wrote:
--- Quote ---CC Ask DE if he understand what I am saying.
--- End quote ---
I understand exactly what you are saying. My focus has been on what you wish to ignore that is contained within what you are saying.
--- Quote ---He thinks he hears me loud and clear and I'm not voluntaryist.
--- End quote ---
That sentence structure indicates to me that you did not proof read what you wrote.
Different parses attempting to understand what is actually meant:
1. He thinks he understands me but he doesn't?
2. He thinks he understands that I AM a voluntarist?
3. He thinks he understands that I am NOT a voluntarist?
4. He doesn't understand that I am NOT a voluntarist?
5. I am not a voluntarist!
For $500 Alex number 5, Who is not a voluntarist?
/snarky response
--- Quote ---I love to control people.
--- End quote ---
Apparently without regard for morality.
--- Quote ---Voluntary chairty will never meet the needs of those who can't produce so taxation (which you call extortion) is necessary to prevent oligarchy
--- End quote ---
You mean like how the present extortion/taxation prevented the oligarchy you rail against?
The one you want to overthrow so you can be the new oligarchy?
February 17 You wrote:
--- Quote ---Without capitalism, the people can never truly own the means of production. They are enslaved to the collective and ruled by sociopaths. Capitalism with all its inherent flaws is the ONLY system that gives direct control to the citizens. The collective of their consumer demand is powerful. Every other system means government taking the control from the people and giving it to the corrupt cronies for the benefit of the politicians. Without capitalism, oligarchy is unavoidable. Even with capitalism, the U.S. is more like an oligarchy than a republic or a democracy.
--- End quote ---
Parsing: {Without capitalism, oligarchy is unavoidable}: With capitalism, oligarchy is avoidable.
In context in the paragraph, I doubt a typographical error or a Freudian Slip.
September 14 at 8:06am You wrote:
--- Quote ---Oligarchy always results when the taxation system which is supposedly progressive is really a con -- it redistributes wealth upward
--- End quote ---
Can a taxation system move wealth upward when it doesn't exist?
Other than that reply, I decline to follow you off topic on that tangent.
--- Quote ---CC How more clear can I be about "I want to control people"? I hate voluntaryism. I am not an anarchist. You think I'm just saying this to start a debate? Hell no. I mean every word.
--- End quote ---
With a certain glee Ms. xxxxxxxx, I present a news flash to you...
You are already a voluntaryist.
Nobody is forcing you to interact with me. It's free will, it's your choice to interact or ignore.
--- Quote ---LM I have been controlled and manipulated my whole life so to me, manipulation is the only answer. Otherwise I will never be free from being controlled by others.
--- End quote ---
Roni Weisberg-Ross wrote:
--- Quote ---When the Abused Becomes the Abuser
It doesn't always happen. But it happens to a large enough degree that it can be referred to as commonplace.
[…]
The point here is that children who were abused are taught to abuse as a way of communicating and connecting. And many times their primary role models, their parents or other family members, are the ones who taught them this.
[…]
The behavior feels familiar and it feels like home. It is instinctive; furthermore, the abuser may not know any other way to behave.
--- End quote ---
I am sorry that you had a shitty life. I find your inability to see other options to be the real tragedy of your early shitty life.
--- Quote ---You either control others or they control you. You have not learned that yet.
--- End quote ---
CORRECTION. You have not Unlearned that yet.
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