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JP
Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---And watch how fast the Anarchists form their own Government telling everyone what they can and cannot do when someone with a bigger Gang comes and starts taking their chickens etc etc etc etc.
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--- Quote ---JH A Government that enforces Natural Laws with a Strong Civil Court the enforces Contracts and Private Property are essential to a Free-Market.
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--- Quote ---Natural Laws are things like Murder, Rape, Assualt, Theft basically anything doing physical harm to someone else.
Anything that the individual can use Force up to and including Deadly Force to stop a person from doing harm to them or others we can have Government do that.
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--- Quote ---JH Every form of government relies on violence and theft because the People are Lazy they thought since the Government did a pretty good job at finding a stopping that Killer or Theif a legitamate function of Government we should just have the Government do everything.
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--- Quote ---I live for comments like yours.
Government is a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control. PROVE ME WRONG.
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--- Quote ---JH If you want to take the Tax route, Sales Taxes are not theft they are volontary and if the People stopped wanting Government to save them from every little thing and care for them from cradle to grave those Sales Taxes would be so little no one would care.
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman Yes the Government the vast majority of the people want today is a Criminal Syndicate because most everyone wants the government to care for them from cradle to grave.
Government is FORCE so you do not let Government do things that do not require Force.
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--- Quote ---JH Why do you think I am talking about or defending the Government we have today???
As I said all you anarchists that think there is some no goverment Utopia will get togeather and form your own Government real fast as soon as the evil that will always exist finds you and it will find you.
Government did not invent evil the people got Lazy and let evil take over their Government.
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--- Quote ---JH OK so in your no Government Utopia how are Murders and Thiefs dealt with?
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--- Quote ---➽ Why do you think I am talking about or defending the Government we have today???
Okay. You have my attention. Why are you defending a criminal syndicate?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman Same question for you.
OK so in your no Government Utopia how are Murders and Thiefs dealt with?
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--- Quote ---JH And if you cannot personaly defende yourself from the threat?
This is where all you anarchist lose it when presented with Real World issues that your system has no real answers for.
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--- Quote ---I'm not the one calling this possible future a utopia.
You didn't answer my question. So I'll ask a second time: Why are you defending a criminal syndicate?
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--- Quote ---➽ And if you cannot personaly defende yourself from the threat?
Why would that be the case? Gun grabber laws?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
All of history pretty much eludes you doesn't it.
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--- Quote ---Answering simple questions eludes you.
Third inquiry: Why are you defending a criminal syndicate?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Do not support any gun grabber laws of any kind but there was a time in U.S. History where there were no Gun Laws at all and there was still plenty of real crime and the funny thing all the small towns that could have easily gone with the anarchist way did not.
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--- Quote ---I am not defending the criminal syndicate the people call Government today.
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Government is like a Garden. You cannot just go out and put seeds in the ground and walk away and think it will all be OK.
You have to constntly pull the weeds and water it and care for it if you are to have any kind of garden.
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--- Quote ---Good. Maybe we can have a productive discussion after all. So, temporarily, I will retract part of my question and change it: Why are you defending government?
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--- Quote ---Going by the anarchist theory since the garden will have weeds we should not have any Gardens.
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--- Quote ---Second inquiry. Why are you defending government?
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--- Quote ---Why have you not answered the question of how you will deal with all the legitamate issues Humans form Governments to deal with?
You can talk about Guns and Personal Responsiblity all you want but you have to sleep at some point in time and a crazy thing about the bad guys of the world they will wait for you to go to sleep.
Use what ever word you want put people are going to ban togeather to protect each other and their property.
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--- Quote ---Because I asked my question first.
And I do actually have some answers to your question. The problem is "government" gets in the way. So I'm holding off on giving you the straight forward answers) your question deserves.
I'll try to make it easy for you.
Are you defending "government"?
Checking to make sure I correctly interpreted what you wrote that I read.
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Go down to South America and find the most isolated tribe that has never had any other contact with other humans and they will have a form of Government. There will be a Chief there will be Elders etc etc and they will all meet a decide what the rest of the tribe will do or move to or defend against.
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--- Quote ---So I'll ask this question a second time:
Are you defending "government"?
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--- Quote ---You are not answering the question because there is no place or time in all of history that you can point to that people did not naturally come togeather and from a government to protect themselves.
The problem is not the Government the problem is all the people that want Government to do everything Government should not and is really incapable of doing.
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--- Quote ---Third inquiry. Are you defending government?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
I am defending a Government that the people keep limited to doing what Government is actually for.
And just like the Garden the Government must be weeded all the time if the people want any hope of it doing what it is suppose to be doing.
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--- Quote ---Thank you.
Now I ask, What, specifically, do you mean by "government"? Along with, what, specifically do I mean by "government"?
What, specifically, are its traits, properties, attributes, & characteristics?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Well since you did not seem to real all my comments where I did answer that questio a couple of times.
Just for you
"A Government that enforces Natural Laws with a Strong Civil Court the enforces Contracts and Private Property are essential to a Free-Market."
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--- Quote ---Where does this government get its alleged authority to do these things?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
That would be the same place it gets it now, from the people.
And that is why Government is not the problem the problem is all the people that want the Government to do everything it should not and cannot do.
We can have a Government that hunts down and catches Muderers because all reasonable people can agree that murder is bad and we do not want it to happen to us, but we do not want Government doing healthcare because reasonable people can have many different opinions on what their personal healthcare should be.
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--- Quote ---What, specifically, is "the people"?
How does this thing called government get this alleged authority from "the people"?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Where does your alleged authority come from to defend yourself from someone trying to do you and/or your family harm?
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--- Quote ---Were would your alleged authority come from to hire someone to defend you and your family?
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--- Quote ---Apples and oranges. My authority to defend myself comes from my being alive. If I hire someone to defend me and mine, that defender has my authority and a contract.
And ONLY that defender.
A second defender does NOT have that contractual authority.
So I'll wait while you try to connect MY authority to government to protect me.
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--- Quote ---We can continue tomorrow.
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
So how many people do you have the alleged authority to hire to defend you and can I also join in on that contract and help you pay it to defend me also?
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--- Quote ---I have authority to hire as many security contractors as I can afford. To keep this discussion simple, I'm choosing none. Zero. Nada.
Please correct me if I misinterpret your intent.
You wish to portray government as a protector of the people?
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Ok you are living in what ever your idea of the perfect Anarchist world is you come home to find your family Murdered.
How do you deal with that very real crime in your perfect Anarchist world?
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--- Quote ---And what gives the security contractors you might hire the authority to do anything?
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--- Quote ---Lemme rephrase the question you ignored:
Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
And the question you ignor
Ok you are living in what ever your idea of the perfect Anarchist world is you come home to find your family Murdered.
How do you deal with that very real crime in your perfect Anarchist world?
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--- Quote ---You are the only one here blathering on about perfect worlds.
Let me state this plainly: At this time I do not wish to discuss maybe and might be.
I am only interested in examining what actually is.
Third inquiry: Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Yep that is the question that sends all anarchists running LOL
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Murder along with other real crimes are not what if, or maybe they happen every single day all over the world and if your systems has no answers for how that will be delt with you are going to have a very hard time selling it to the masses.
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--- Quote ---➽ Yep that is the question that sends all anarchists running LOL
Yep. That's the topic that sends all statists running.
Actually looking at what presently exists.
Fourth inquiry: Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
➽ Murder along with other real crimes [...] happen every single day all over the world and if your systems has no answers for how that will be delt with you are going to have a very hard time selling it to the masses.
Well let's look at how YOUR present system deals with crimes all over the world.
Do you agree that somebody saying give me your money or I will hurt you is extortion?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
So only I must answer questions but not you. LOL
No delusions of Authority there LOL
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
"Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?"
The intent would be to see if you have an answer to the question.
Obviously you have no answer. Or no answer that would not involve some kind of authority over someone else.
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--- Quote ---I am trying to understand your thinking. I am trying to find out just exactly what you do know about the present reality.
Second inquiry: Do you agree that somebody saying give me your money or I will hurt you is extortion?
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Still cannot answer the question.
They say the person asking the questions is in control....
Your constant questioning me but will never answer just one of mine looks like you are a person that wants all the control or Authority over others. LOL
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
But just to stroke your own authoritarian ego I already answered the Tax question so just go back and reread it.
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--- Quote ---Very easy to do.
And I quote:
"JH If you want to take the Tax route, Sales Taxes are not theft they are volontary and if the People stopped wanting Government to save them from every little thing and care for them from cradle to grave those Sales Taxes would be so little no one would care."
Your turn. Quote the words of me asking you "the Tax question"
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Volontary Taxes are not extortion you have a choice.
"Do you agree that somebody saying give me your money or I will hurt you is extortion?"
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
But still avoiding the question how is very real crime delt with in the Anarchist system.
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--- Quote ---You made a claim. I challenged you to prove your claim.
Quote the words of me asking you "the Tax question"
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