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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
It is your turn to answer my question.
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
You keep bringing up stuff we can both agree on.
But you seem to keep bringing that stuff up as if it will get me to accept your no answer at all to my question.
On avg there are 44 Murders a day in the U.S. alone how does the Anarchist way of life deal with that very real problem without some kind of Authority?
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--- Quote ---Fifth inquiry: Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
So, you understand government is NOT a protector of the people. The deity of government you worship is unable or unwilling to keep "44 Murders a day in the U.S. alone" from happening.
But then, cops have no duty to protect.
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Once again you are not giving any other solution then what we have now. And I have lost count of how many times I have inquired on that one.
If you have a better way of dealing with the very real crimes that happen every day I truly want to hear it.
By your not answering the question I can only assume you have no answer or better way.
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--- Quote ---Concealed carry. Self protection starts with self.
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--- Quote ---Voluntaryists would be people who wish to live in a voluntary society.
Society means masses of individual humans. For without at least two individuals interacting, a Society does not exist. Society comes from Latin societatem (nominative societas) "fellowship, association, alliance, union, community," from socius "companion, ally,"
Do what you are told to do or they will hurt you. This is how EVERY government works. Past, present, or future. Every government ever, uses, has used, or will use extortion to control.
Not wanting to be extorted sure looks like wanting to be left alone to me. Not wanting to be threatened with death to force obedience sure looks like wanting to be left alone to me. If you know you want to be left alone and not threatened nor extorted, then I submit that you want to live in a Voluntary Society.
The members of a Voluntary Society would understand YDOMism and honor its precepts. YDOM means You Don't Own Me. Any five to eight year old child, who exclaims to another child, "Who made you the boss of me?" inherently understands YDOMism's basic "Don't tell me what to do!"
If we are all equals, then "Who made you the boss of me?" is the purpose of YDOMism.
In a voluntary society, there would be an understanding that nobody was born with authority over anybody else, thus attempts to act as owners of other people would be easily observable.
Alas, that is not the case I observe on this planet. Most do not understand that we live in a society that lets a select few act and rule others as if they own those others. In online discussions and observations, I've seen people strenuously, emphatically, and emotionally defending being owned. These people do not understand that they are arguing for their own treatment as slaves. These people do not have a clear view nor a clear understanding that nobody owns them.
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
"we live in a society that """lets""" a select few"
"Lets" is the real probem.
There is a small amount of Government Authority needed to deal with the real criminals that do not volunteer to not harm others and do not volunteer to just give up and admit they did it the problems start when the People "Let" the Government go beyond that.
But what is truly insane is thinking the very same people that created the Authoritarian Governments we have now will just all of a sudden treat each other with kindness and respect in the absence of any Government.
I will also comment on this
"If we are all equals, then "Who made you the boss of me?""
Little sad news for you Humans are not equal some are smarter, stronger, weaker, more energy etc etc etc and every time I cross a bridgh or go up 50 stories in an elevator and they do not collapse and we all die I thank God that Civil Engineer is way superior to me in math.
In fact the only place people are suppose to be equal is in the thing you do not want the eyes of the Government and we cannot even achieve it there.
Like the Communist the Anarchist thinks if they can just remove the Human element from the equation it will all be good.
Even in the "Peaceful" Protests last summer very little Government was attacked but plenty of private businesses were looted and burned what gave those people the Authority to do that to those private individuals?
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--- Quote from: OT ---Ok you are living in what ever your idea of the perfect Anarchist world is you come home to find your family Murdered.
How do you deal with that very real crime in your perfect Anarchist world?"
You live in your idea of perfect government. You come home and you find your family murdered. And the murderers are the gang called government.
How do you deal with that very real crime in your perfect statist world?
Once you give me the answer to that, the answer to your question will also be obvious.
You talk as if state monopoly on violence is NOT the cause of most crime in the world, including murder.
You talk as if government is the protector of rights, not main violator of rights.
You ask me questions, but never answer my questions yourself.
If you don't have the "authority" to extort your neighbor (levy taxes) or make arbitrary rules (laws) for your neighbor, where does the government get its "authority" from?
Do you realize that, governments around the world mass murdered more than 263 million of their own citizens last century alone? That was more than what governments have killed of other governments' people in two world wars, around another 200 million.
So governments killed almost half a billion people last century. That was much more than any private homicide in the same period.
Whatever methods of organization and protection you propose against a tyrannical government, can also be employed against any private murderers or criminals.
There is no need for any state monopoly on violence at any stage. In fact, once there is a state monopoly on violence, there is no justice in the matters of state vs citizen. Citizens have no recourse when government violates their rights.
You can never call the cops on the tax collector and jail them for running an extortion racket. Since they all belong to the same gang of extortionists.
https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
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--- Quote from: OT ---I'll tell you what won't happen in an anarchy to murderers: They won't be given the machinery of the state so they can mass murder and get away with it.
That is only possible with statism.
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--- Quote from: OT ---""Lets" is the real probem."
How do you "not let" the government to become tyrannical? How do you keep the government "limited" when it crosses those limits?
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--- Quote from: OT ---Once you give the smallest government the smallest "authority", meaning state monopoly on violence, there is no stopping the government from becoming a tyrannical leviathan over time.
No government ever becomes smaller or more limited through any democratic or political means. Never happened in history.
All governments always get bigger, more powerful and more tyrannical over time. Till they collapse.
Government is the problem, not the solution to anything. Not crime, not war, nothing.
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--- Quote ---Our schedules for time on FecesBook conflict. I'm going to limit my interactions with you to only once or twice a day.
If you are smart, you will write your comments in a local text editor. Then, when you have composed and PROOFREAD your text before you copy and paste. FecesBook limits comments to 8,000 characters.
This will allow you to get your thoughts together and not have to do add on additional posts.
I take my time when conversing about conflicting ideologies and logical conclusions. I have on occasion spent up to four hours composing an 8,000 character posts, because I'm dealing with an emotional knee jerk reactionary jerk.
I ask questions. I ask a lot of questions. I ask those questions to challenge ambiguities, unsubstantiated claims, faulty conclusions, and unexamined opinions. Opinions unexamined by the opinion spewer.
As I pointed out, I also keep a public archive record of such conversations. I will post that link again. The archive allows me to keep track of points not addressed.
As I previously pointed out, your focus is stuck on "what if". Mine is on "what is". You are trying to use "what if" to defend "what is."
I applaud and appreciate your longer, better thought out(?) post. Obviously that's gonna take me more time to digest and address.
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
And still no answer to the question. LOL
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--- Quote ---➽ And still no answer to the question. LOL
Sixth inquiry: Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
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--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
If you cannot answer simple questions your "what if" therory of Anarchy will never be excepted by the General Population that does and will ask, how will things like Murder be dealt with in the Anarchy World?
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--- Quote ---You are the one with the fixation of "WHAT MAY BE."
I have publicly archived this discussion.
This makes it very easy for me to review this discussion.
I cannot, NOT notice your absolute refusal to discuss what actually exists.
I cannot, NOT notice your absolute intent to support what actually exists.
Seventh inquiry: Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
Still have no answer to the question LOL
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--- Quote ---➽ Still have no answer to the question LOL
I asked my questions first.
So now I'll ask my question as an inverse.
Is it your intent to NOT portray government as a protector of the people?
Reminder for you and all the others reading this. I am trying to understand what your narrative and agenda is about. I am trying to understand what you are wishing to present; what you are wishing to convey. So I ask questions to get clarifications.
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Dale Eastman:
--- Quote ---Dale Eastman
You cannot answer the question so move on.
The whole voluntary theory just like Communism falls apart when it runs into real Life.
But just for you to answer your question AGAIN the """INTENT""" is to try and find out how the Anarchist system deals with Real Crime.
You are the one trying to sell Anarchy, I am not trying to sell you anything. And if you cannot answer what should be simple questions then you are wasting your time because the masses will not buy it.
You cannot even have this discussion without trying to have some kind of authority over me LOL
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--- Quote ---➽ You cannot even have this discussion without trying to have some kind of authority over me LOL
That you believe I'm trying to have authority over you... You are just parroting terms you've heard and do not understand. I'll self-censor myself and write nothing of what I opine regarding your genealogy and ancestry. Kudos on accidentally figuring out a tiny bit of what myself and others understand, even though you are completely oblivious to that knowledge.
I have NO authority over you.
Other words for "anarchy" "anarchist" and "anarchism", because of the corruption and co-opting of those words, are "voluntary", "voluntaryist", and "voluntaryism".
In other words, no involuntary interactions. The interaction is voluntary on your part, because no gun wielding government agent is forcing you to reply to my posts. That is 100% your free will. Reply or don't. Your free will choice.
➽ I am not trying to sell you anything.
Are your friends so stupid they fall for your forked tongue?
Remember, I told you I'm archiving this discussion. This makes it VERY easy for me to scan and skim your statements for context and contradictions.
I asked you two questions in an attempt to understand and determine your position. Two questions you have absolutely refused to address. For review, those questions are:
❶ Is it your intent to portray government as a protector of the people?
❷ Is it your intent to NOT portray government as a protector of the people?
You continually focus on "WHAT IF."
You continually refuse to focus on "WHAT IS."
The "what if" is about "anarchy," this is definitely NOT "what is," because "what is," is government. Thus by context of all your comments in this discussion, You are trying to sell people on "what is." You are trying to sell people on government.
Thus I have now made a claim about you. You are for government. You are trying to portray government as a protector of the people. You are trying to sell government as the protector of the people.
In case you forgot my post that initiated this discussion:
I live for comments like yours.
Government is a criminal syndicate that extorts people for money and control. PROVE ME WRONG.
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